We meet Jens Stoltenberg (63) in the woods behind the house he owns in Brussels. It is located at the end of one of the city’s long avenues. If the NATO Secretary General has a free moment, it is often here that he decompresses and relaxes with a walk. In this interview, he talks about:
NUCLEAR POWER: For the first time, a nuclear power, Russia, has launched a full-scale attack on a country in Europe. The picture is from Nagasaki in 1945, after the US dropped an atomic bomb. Photo: Anonymous
Who he talked to the night the war started
The fear of the use of nuclear weapons and World War III
How difficult it has been to keep NATO together
The plan ahead
The security guards are informed of the plans for the interview. Going for a walk involves more than just NATO’s Secretary General. Stoltenberg’s Norwegian communications manager Sissel Kruse Larsen is also there, as she was the night the war started one year ago.
DEMANDING: A great responsibility has rested on Stoltenberg this year, not least he has pushed to get weapons and ammunition into Ukraine quickly. Photo: NATO
– Knew it was coming
Stoltenberg had warned of a Russian invasion for several weeks. When the attack came, he was sleeping at home in Brussels.
– We were really just waiting for it to happen, because we had very precise intelligence that the Russians were going to attack. We did something that we don’t usually do. We shared intelligence with the public and warned against the war long in advance.
He was woken up by his chief of staff, Stian Jenssen, who said: “They’re underway”.
CALLED: The first people Stoltenberg called at night one year ago were US Defense Minister Lloyd Austin and the US Secretary of State. Photo: NATO
First Stoltenberg spoke with the US Minister of Defense and Minister of Foreign Affairs. Then he went to NATO headquarters not far from Brussels airport. The alliance’s defense plans were activated and more forces were deployed in Eastern Europe. A precise plan had been laid for what was to happen.
– Do you remember what you were thinking?
– I remember primarily a sadness and a feeling that this is a day that will go down in history. One of the turning points in history. What many of us hoped for and dreamed about in the years after the end of the Cold War, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, was definitely over.
The dream was to achieve cooperation, trust and friendship with Russia. Stoltenberg also thought that there would be a Europe before and a Europe after the war.
MEET: Jens Stoltenberg and Vladimir Putin are not strangers to each other. They have met several times, including when Stoltenberg was prime minister. Photo: TASS
Nuclear weapons and World War III
– Have we, you politicians, been too naive?
– I think it is permissible to hope. It is permissible, at least for many years after the fall of the Berlin Wall, to be able to hope for another Russia.
He recalls that the war from last year is part of a pattern, where Russia first entered Georgia in 2008 and annexed Crimea in 2014.
NOT THE FIRST TIME: In August 2008, Russian forces entered Georgia. After that, relations between the United States and Russia cooled. Photo: Natalia Kolesnikova/AFP
One of Stoltenberg’s strongest memories from the war years is the first telephone conversation with Volodymyr Zelenskyj after the outbreak of war. A bad conversation, are the words he uses. The Ukrainian president requested NATO aircraft to impose a no-fly zone. It was supposed to ensure that the Russians could not operate over Ukrainian airspace.
ASKED FOR FLIGHTS: One of the worst experiences for Stoltenberg this year was when he had to say no to sending NATO planes to Ukraine in a telephone conversation with President Zelensky. Photo: NATO
– I said no to that. Because then it would have been a full-on war. NATO basically has two tasks. To support Ukraine and we do so on a large scale, a scale that hardly anyone thought possible. But we must also prevent this war from spreading and becoming a full-scale war between Russia and NATO.
He says it is a demanding balancing act, and he understands that Zelenskyj wants NATO to enter Ukraine.
– It had made a dangerous and cruel war even more dangerous and cruel.
– Did you think about nuclear weapons, World War III, all the things that many people were afraid of right then?
– There is a shadow behind this conflict all the time. Because it is the first time a nuclear power has gone to this type of large-scale attack war on another country in Europe. As Russia is doing now. Russia has also had a rhetoric that is dangerous when it comes to the use of nuclear weapons.
DANGEROUS RHETORIC: Stoltenberg believes that Russia is speaking in a way that means that the use of nuclear weapons can never be ruled out. It is always behind the war in Ukraine, he says. Click to add image caption Photo: TASS
At the same time, NATO’s Secretary General emphasizes that the risk of using nuclear weapons is small. But the damaging effects of using nuclear weapons are so great that it is a risk that must be taken seriously, says Stoltenberg.
The picture that made an impression
One of the main tasks this year has been to keep the NATO countries together.
– It is always demanding when 30 countries have to agree. But I still feel that despite differences, which are due to history, geography and other things, all NATO countries have agreed on the most important things. Namely, that we cannot let President Putin win this war of aggression. It will be a tragedy for Ukraine and also dangerous for us.
FOREST BEHIND THE HOUSE: In his spare time, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg takes a walk in the forest area behind the house he manages in Brussels. Photo: Daniel Demoustier/TV 2
The US calls the war a crime against humanity. Stoltenberg says the Russians attack and kill civilians, carry out torture and attack civilian infrastructure.
That is the reason why both NATO countries and others are working to collect evidence and documentation, so that those responsible can ultimately be held accountable and convicted.
– Do you think President Putin will be judged for this war?
– No one can say anything for sure about that today. But what is crucial now is to support Ukraine. They must get the weapons, ammunition and support they need to stop President Putin’s misdeeds in Ukraine. And get a force so that President Putin at some point realizes that he is not going to win this war and has to negotiate, Stoltenberg replies.
The brutality on the battlefield
Joe Biden, Jonas Gahr Støre, Ursula von der Leyen, Emmanuel Macron and Olaf Scholz. The list is long of those who have visited Ukraine in the past year. Stoltenberg does not have that.
– Would you like to see with your own eyes what is happening?
ATTACK IN DNIPRO: On Saturday 14 January 2023, this block of flats was attacked in the Ukrainian city of Dnipro. 40 civilians were killed and 30 are unaccounted for after the Russian attack. Many were buried in the ruins and were not found until two days later. Photo: Oleksandr Techynskyi / TV 2
– It is an ongoing assessment and I may well travel there as well, but we have always been concerned with distinguishing between the two tasks NATO has: To support Ukraine and not make NATO a party to the conflict.
Stoltenberg understands that it can be difficult to take on the war over time. He says it is human to try to suppress the atrocities.
– It is a scale of cruelty that we have not seen in Europe since the Second World War. At the same time, it is important to remember that this is happening, that it is about people.
He says this also applies to the brutality on the battlefield.
– What we see now is that the Russians are throwing waves of soldiers towards the Ukrainian defense positions. We know they have huge losses, but they use the soldiers as cannon fodder. It is a brutal form of warfare that we saw in Europe many, many decades ago.
UKRAINIAN SOLDIERS: Celebrating the recapture of a Ukrainian town from the Russians. Stoltenberg believes the Russians are using their own soldiers as cannon fodder. Photo: Anatolii Stepanov / AFP
He has a bit of a hard time finding the strongest moment of the past year. Because there have been so many gruesome images, so many horrific stories.
– People I have met who have lost relatives and friends in Ukraine. The conversation with Zelenskyj where he asks us to block the airspace and we cannot deliver. It made an impression.
Finally, he mentions the picture of the pregnant woman, who lost her child and later died after the attack on the maternity hospital in Mariupol in March. A brutal image from the brutal war, he says.
LOST CHILDREN AND DEAD: This is the strongest image Jens Stoltenberg remembers from the past year. The woman at the maternal hospital in Mariupol, who lost her unborn child and later died after a Russian attack, Photo: AP
Jens Stoltenberg says we must be prepared that there will also be a two-year marking of the war.
– Wars are unpredictable. No one can say today when and how this war will end, but it may last a long time.
– Do you think you are Secretary General of NATO then?
– I have made it clear that I will resign when my term expires on 1 October. Then I am no longer Secretary-General, so if the war lasts longer, I will not be here when the war is over.
